From: gaborzinhoSubject: Re: Ladislav Kubala Date: 18 January 2002 04:26 In article , soccer-europe wrote: >> From : Manolo Benet >> Subject : Ladislav Kubala > >>Maradona was a Barcelona reject. Think about that. > > Kubala played for two Serie A clubs. He left Milan after winning a > championship and was never mentioned as one of the great Milan players. > Maradona was at Barca for 5 minutes but is considered among the top > three Barca players of all time. Well, I just had to chime in. Laszlo (as it is on his birth certificate) Kubala was born in Budapest, on June 10, 1927. His parents were from, what was by then part of, Czechoslovakia (Bratislava or Pozsony). His father was Polish-Slovakian, his mother Hungarian-Slovakian. Not that it matters, as it never mattered to "Kuksi", as he was called from early childhood. He once said, when pressed for declaring his nationality: "I am a citizen of the world." His first team was a poor factory-sponsored team: Ganz TE, where he played as an 11-year-old among 14-16-year-olds. When he turned 18 Ferencváros signed him. (I was playing with my youth team against Ferencvaros as a preliminary match on Christmas Day 1945, and ended up staying afterwards to watch the Ferencvaros - Vasas match. Kuksi scored 2 goals in a 4-1 win, that was the first time I met him.) Next year he received his draft notice. He escaped to Czechoslovakia, and signed with SK Bratislava. He played for the Czech national team 6 times, scoring 4 goals. Then he received his draft notice there too, so back to Hungary he went. By then Ferencvaros was labeled a "fascist" team by the communists and were under all kinds of restrictions. So Kuksi signed with Vasas. While there, he played for Hungary's national team 3 times. When the communists consolidated their power and took over the government, he paid some smugglers to take him to Italy. There he and some other players formed a team called Hungaria and played exhibition matches. The team was comprised of Hungarians who were living in the areas that were reunited with pre-war countries, Transylvania, Carpatho-Ukraine, Southern Slovakia, Vojvodina, etc. They beat Real Madrid 4-2 in Madrid, beat the Spanish national team that was preparing for the 1950 WC, and Espanyol. That was the best match Kuksi played, and observers from Barcelona were in the stands. So they offered him a contract, which he signed on June 15, 1950. Sorry guys, he never played for AC Milan, or any other Italian team. He had a pre-contract with Pro Patria, that is all. The way that came about was that the President of Pro Patria bet him a gold watch, that he (Kuksi) cannot joggle the ball all the way around the pitch. Of course, Kuksi won the bet and he was offered a contract, too. Inter and Torino also wanted to sign him. He agreed to guest-play for Torino at a frindly in Lisboa. Just before he was to board the plane, his wife and child arrived from Hungary. His son was very ill, so Kuksi backed out of the trip (he's my man, family first!). On the return flight Torino's plane crashed killing everyone on board, includig one of Kuksi's best friends Gyula Schubert. As a footnote, the reason for the crash was, that the players smuggled gold from Portugal to Italy, as in Portugal it was much-much cheaper at that time. In order to avoid having to go through customs, they set up a drop at Superga, where accomplices were waiting on the ground. The plane descended too low and crashed. Kuksi remained a Barcelona player until 1963 and played for Spain 19 times. He then was player-coach for RCD Espanyol, FC Zürich, then finally for the Toronto Falcons, from where he retired in 1968. During the days of the Hungarian Revolution in 1956, when several Hungarian football teams were touring abroad, Kuksi was the go-between. It was him who recommended no less than four Hungarian players to Barcelona (Kocsis and Czibor from Honved, both of which previously played with Kuksi at Ferencvaros, Kaszas and Szalay from Hungary's U-21 team.) He was also the person who delivered Real Madrid's offer to Lajos Tichy for 200 kgs of gold, an offer Tichy turned down. His accomplishment are more or less correctly listed on the various websites given. One thing stands out. In 1953 England had a gala match against the Rest of Europe. No less than 7 Hungarian players were selected. Hungary declined to participate, since they had a match against England about a month later, and they wanted to be the first continental team to beat them at Wembley. It is unlikely, that Kuksi would have gotten much playing time had Kocsis played, but this way he did. And he scored two goals. Europe was leading 4-3, England equalized in the last minute, so Hungary did in fact become the first. Kuksi never played in a WC. In 1962 he played in some of the qualifiers, but both he and DiStefano got hurt just before the finals. So, despite making the trip to Chile, neither of them saw one minute of playing time. In 1999, at Barcelona's 100th anniversary, he was voted by the fans as the all-time best player, ahead of Cruyff and Maradona. He was also selected by sport journalist as the second best player in Spain during the 20th Century, behind DiStefano. He was also awarded the Grand Cross of Sports by the government of Spain. Couple of corrections. One of the websites states that Czibor once played for AS Roma. Plus it states that he was a defender. Not true! He signed a contract, which was nullified by the ban, or rather limit, on foreign players just a few days later. It is quite a story, but Czibor got a $10.000 compensation, plus AS Roma paid his back rent on the villa he and his family were living in. And he was, of course, a brilliant left wing. Born Aug. 23, 1929 in Komarom, BTW. Died there on Sep. 1, 1997.) Another website lists Kocsis' stats for Kuksi, Hungarian scoring champion. WC best scorer, etc. ==================================================================================== From: gaborzinho Subject: Re: Ladislav Kubala Date: 18 January 2002 23:27 In article <1Var1HAZF$R8EwXR@ntlworld.com>, soccer-europe wrote: > According to this website he played for Milan : > > http://www.barcelona-world.com/history/kubala.htm > > See what else they got wrong! > Well, let's see! 1. I mentioned this in another post in connection with Kispest Honved, but there is no such team as Ferencvaros Budapest (or Bufapest ;-). The name of the team is Ferencvaros Torna Club, FTC, or Fradi. Minor error. (Vasas Budapest IS correct, even though until 1949 the were called Vasas Sport Club.) 2. Pro Patria - he never played for this team. 3. He signed with Barcelona in 1950, never played for AC Milan. As far as I know, he never even talked to them. 4. He played for Barcelona until 1963. 5. Obviously the next paragraph is incorrect in its entirety, as it pertains to Sandor Kocsis, not to Kubala. 6. Coaching career: Barcelona (technical director 1963--64, head coach 1964) RCD Espanyol (player-coach 1964--65) FC Zürich (player-coach 1966--67) Toronto Falcons (player-coach 1967--68) FC Córdoba (head coach1968--69) Spain (head coach 1969--80) Barcelona (head coach 1980, coach of youth team, then director of youth development 1981--82) al-Hilal (head coach 1982--86) CF Murcia (head coach 1986--87) FC Málaga (head coach 1987--89) Spanish Olympic team(head coach 1991--92) Paraguay (head coach 1995). As far as I know he never coached the Saudi Arabian Olympic team. >>first!). On the return flight Torino's plane crashed killing everyone on >>board, includig one of Kuksi's best friends Gyula Schubert. As a footnote, >>the reason for the crash was, that the players smuggled gold from Portugal >>to Italy, as in Portugal it was much-much cheaper at that time. In order to >>avoid having to go through customs, they set up a drop at Superga, where >>accomplices were waiting on the ground. The plane descended too low and >>crashed. > > Are you sure? It's the first time I heard about the gold smuggling. I was not there, so obviously I don't know it first hand. My recollection is that Kuksi told me that, who was also in on the deal. I tried to call him this morning in Barcelona, but could not get him, as he is in Budapest right now. In 1984 I was interviewed by a Hungarian writer for a book he was writing on Puskas. We were waiting for Puskas in a hotel lobby with another player Bela Egresi (he died a few years ago), who was also an ex-Kispest player. He was with Torino at the time of the accident, but was not under contract, so he did not make the fatal trip. He was also talking about this matter, as he gave money to Gyula Schubert to make a purchase on his behalf. Again, I remembered gold. But I finally called this writer guy after I couldn't get Kuksi, and with my luck he answered the phone at his apartment. He looked it up in his notes. I was wrong! It was DIAMONDS, not GOLD! Mea culpa! I went through all this just for you and for the sake of accurate reporting!!!! Beyond this I cannot confirm the accuracy of the story, but I have no reason to believe that either Kuksi or Csopi would make this up. =================================================================================== From: gaborzinho Subject: Re: The real cause of the Superga crash (was: Re: Ladislav Kubala) Date: 19 January 2002 17:00 In article , "Futbolmetrix" wrote: >soccer-europe wrote: >> >> I believe you it's just that I never heard anything about smuggling in >> the various reports on the disaster I have read over the years so was >> stunned when you mentioned it. It's a tragedy that these players died as >> a result of greed, a real tragedy. > > This could very well be just another rumour you heard on the internet, > but I also have no reason to believe Gaborzinho would be making this up. > Other than this, I can understand how none of this ever came up in all > the reports about the Superga crash. The great Torino team has become > an icon in Italy, some sort of national symbol that you do not want to > throw > mud upon. Together with Fausto Coppi, they are generally considered as > something that gave a ray of hope in the difficult years of post-war > reconstruction. > So even if some reporter did catch hold of this story, he probably would > have > just said: "well, this one I'll just pretend I didn't hear it". > > Daniele > Like I said, I just heard it from others, not a rumor I heard on the Internet. Knowing my sources, I have no reason to believe they had any reason for not telling the truth. But I would not attribute this to greed. Back in those days it was common for certain teams to provide some form of bonus to players in lieu of cash. After the war it was not unusual for big city teams to play exhibition matches against provincial teams. Then after the match they stayed for dinner and received food items as gifts. Food was in scarce supply in big cities then, so a stick of salami, a slab of bacon, eggs, cheese, etc. were valuable commodities. Don't put this in the perspective of today's multimillionaire players. These were called "bread-and-butter" tours. Many Spanish, Italian teams toured South America for similar reasons (instead, say, England or Germany), where they could make purchases which then could be sold at a profit back home, leather goods, jewelry, etc. In Western Europe the economic incentives quickly disappeared due to the reconstruction and by the early 50-s this was not a factor, with two exceptions: cigarettes and booze. It was not uncommon to see players load up on these items so they can either sell them, or use them as gifts back home. Nowadays it is the electronics. You should have seen the players of Brasil after the WC of 1994, when they organized a shopping spree just prior to returning home. Before the WC of 1986 Bora moved all of Mexico's exhibition matches to the LA Coliseum. In the morning of the matches, Mexican players, most even wearing team warm-ups, were prowling LA's electronic shopping district to make purchases. In places such as Hungary, this was much more important, as the standard of living was much lower. Plus the communist idealogy did not tolerate "professional" sports. So players were encouraged to bring in desirable items to supplement their income, they were promised no customs inspection upon returning. At one time even Hungary's president of the FA was the head of customs, who could order or rescind exceptions at will. Some of these players had a staff to handle resales, as they did not have the time to peddle their goods. At one time Puskas complained to a high official, and told him that if they raise their salaries (in the phony jobs they had) to such-and-such, the smuggling would stop. This official responded, what would then the miners and the industrial workers say. In other words, he could not make an exception to the communist priciple of equality. So the smuggling continued. There was this joke around the Honved clubhouse, when people said the day before the team's bus was due to arrive back, that they already heard the bus because it was clicking so loud. (Swiss watches were hot items.) Or the swishing noise of the nylon stockings, or whatever was lucrative at the moment. On a more serious note, players were often requested to bring in items such as spare parts to machines. As it was officially "no shortage" of these items, the government would have lost face, had they tried to go through official channels. I heard that Hidegkuti, whose mother worked in a weaving mill, once brought in two large suitcases full of some special needles. The suitcases were so heavy, nobody could lift them. But at the train terminal there were half a dozen people from the mill waiting for him already to help. Hidegkuti then was given some kind of medal, like the "Hero of Socialist Labor" or similar. Just for information, in the smuggling business Lorant and Puskas were by far the best, with Czibor a close second. Kocsis was by far the worst, he would get taken advantage of at both ends. The others, while they had their moments, were somewhere in-between. On another, even more serious note, players or staff who were observed to step outside the guidelines while abroad, were set up by the AVH/KGB. Grosics was actually banned from football for a year, and was kicked out of Honved. Some others did prison time. I almost got screwed once, someone put a banned item in my suitcase. I got lucky though, one of the players saw it and told me. I removed the item and left it on the train. At customs they turned my suitcase inside out and held me for over an hour, but came up with nothing. Funny, I had two suitcases, but they only scrutinized the one the stuff was supposed to be in. Obviously, they were acting under orders. I hope the AVH man, whose responsibility it was to set this up, got severely reprimanded. Besides the communist countries, smuggling was also somewhat tolerated in Brasil, and I am sure, in other countries also. Players would carry coffee and gemstones out and watches, electronics, porno movies in. I once posted about old Galeco where people had to pass a long table during customs inspections and place their suitcases on the table to be opened by the officials. They would load soccer balls with watches, and while waiting in line, they would pass the balls under the table to those already past the inspection line. Goods confiscated were taken to the police station, if the player had connections, they could reclaim them later. Or in the case of less famous people, and I saw this done to Nelson Rockefeller, Sergio Mendez and that triple-jumper fellow, a high ranking customs official, under orders from higher ups, simply grabbed the suitcases and bypassed the line. (Of course Rockefeller was not smuggling, just did not want to bother with the line, Sergio Mendez and the tripple-jumper I am not sure.) After Brasil lost WC final in 1998, they returned home via Miami. You can guess why. But they were granted no favors at the customs, and many players openly complained about it. Summa summarum, don't be so harsh on those players, they have to be judged based on contemporary standards, not those of today. And yes, that Torino team was indeed great.