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Subject: Re: Great players never appear in WC
From: marcelo@apollo.HP.COM (Marcelo Weinberger)
Date: May 17, 1995

phsoccer@uxmail.ust.hk (Lam Wai Yin) writes:

|> Would anyone tell me which great players in soccer who never appear
|> in WC finals due to the poor performance of their country's team in
|> the qualifying game, just like Ian Rush of Wales?

If Ian Rush is your standard of "great player," (I mean, at
international level and with a historic perspective), then I'm a bit
reluctant to give you the following list of South American players, but
anyway...

Another caveat: for most of these players the reason is not poor
performance but either that their countries decided not to participate
in the WC in some period for various reasons, or that they played out of
the country in a time when bringing foreign-based players was simply
not done.

So here you have:
>From Argentina, its best generation of football players, from the
fourties and early fifties. The most obvious is
DiStefano,
but other great players not playing in a WC: 
Jose Manuel Moreno
Adolfo Pedernera (died last week)
Angel Labruna.
Later, another Argentine all-time great didn't play in a WC: Angel Omar
Sivori (he was playing in Italy during WC'58 and '62, I think; or did he
play in WC'58?)
>From Uruguay: a whole generation of great players from the thirties and
fourties. Most notably: Anibal Ciocca (The Prince), Severino Varela,
Roberto Porta. Later, in the fifties, another Uruguayan all-time great
never played in WC's, as he was playing in Argentina: Walter Gomez.
>From Peru: Juan Joya, one of the best wings in the world in the sixties.
He was playing for Pen~arol in Uruguay, and his country didn't qualify
for the WC until 1970 anyway.
>From Ecuador: Alberto Spencer, one of the best centerforwards in the
world during the sixties. He was playing for Pen~arol in Uruguay, and
his country never qualify for the WC anyway.

>From Europe, the most obvious coming to mind is George Best.

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Subject:  Re: Great players never to appear in WC
From: loris@zeus.physast.uga.edu (Loris Magnani)
Date: May 17, 1995

Sivori played in WC'62...but for Italy (one of the last oriundi). He
took part in the games vs. Germany (0-0) and Switzerland (3-0) but did
not play in the infamous game vs. Chile  (2-0 for Chile).  In the aftermath
of that WC, Italy decided against using oriundi and from the 1966 WC onwards 
they have fielded teams without players whose nationality is controversial.  
(However, I do believe that Claudio Gentile, the defender so beloved by all 
south american football fans, was born in Lybia - but I don't know the 
details).

Sorry to hear about Pedernera.  Weren't these players part of "La Maquina"?
And could somebody post the history of this particular team (River ?)
Did these players form the attack for the Argentinean team during this 
period?  If so, how did the national team fare with this attack?
And, most importantly WHY didn't this argentinian team participate in
WC50?? I know that there was some sort of players strike and several of these
players went to Colombia to play in the outlaw league...so I guess I may
have answered my own question about why Argentina wasn't there in 1950, but
surely before the players' strike they must have played for the national
team...


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Subject: Re: Great players never to appear in WC
From: marcelo@apollo.HP.COM (Marcelo Weinberger)
Date: May 17, 1995

>Weren't these players part of "La Maquina"?

Yes. The forward line in the fourties was Mun~oz, Labruna, Moreno,
Pedernera and Loustau. In the late fourties, when some of these players
were a bit old (and Pedernera was playing in Colombia, as Loris states),
this team included DiStefano. Since 1949, it included also Uruguayan
Walter Gomez.

> Did these players form the attack for the Argentinean team during
> this period?

I think so. I also think that Argentina had the upper-hand in the Copa
America during the fourties, but I don't have the stats. I do know that,
with DiStefano in the team, Argentina won the 1947 Copa America.

>I know that there was some sort of players strike and several
> of these players went to Colombia to play in the outlaw league...

In particular, Di Stefano and Pedernera (the latter coached Colombia
during WC'62). I don't know in Argentina, but in Uruguay the 1948 league
indeed was never completed because of a strike. Some older player then
left for Colombia (Zapirain, Raul Pini).

> so I guess I may have answered my own question about why Argentina
> wasn't there in 1950,

Not quite. I think that Argentina's absence from WC'50 and WC'54 had
more to do with FIFA not giving Argentina the chance of organizing the
tournament. In turn, this might be related to the Peronist era.