From: gaborzinho Subject: Re: Who is Gaborzinho? Was: World Cup upsets Date: 02/01/2002 Carramba! What is this flurry of activities all of a sudden? Speculating about my "true identity" and reading something sinister into me not naming the 17-year-old in a post. You guys don't even let me rest on New Year's Day! Let me summarize below responses to several posts, and hopefully dispelling some (truly flattering) rumors about who I may or may not be. None of this is secret though, I just did not think it would be appropriate to list it here. I already disclosed to some of you via e-mail my football background. Sorry to disappoint those who were after some juicy tidbits. In article, "Futbolmetrix" wrote: > Now we only have to find out why Gaborzinho didn't > want to reveal the player's name. It was Lajos Tichy, as Florian Albert was a life-long Ferencvaros player, and only 11 years old in 1952. The post was not about him, though, I didn't mean to make it a mystery. For all you amateur sleuths out there, let me also provide a clarification before someone charges me with inaccuracies. The scrimmage between Honved and (then) second division club BVSC took place in Nov. 1952. I said that the following day Honved signed Lajos Tichy. This is correct, however BVSC insisted that Lajos stay with them until the end of the season and Honved agreed. Thus Lajos did not officially become a Honved player until mid-1953 and he debuted for their first team on a snow covered pitch on Jan. 12, 1954. Yes, he did score a goal, as well as upon his debut with the national team. In article <1f5c79u.18oiq7q173lixoN%sven_mischkies@magicvillage.de>, sven_mischkies@magicvillage.de (Sven Mischkies) wrote: > > Maybe it was Gaborzinho himself. ;)) > Obviously, you have never seen me play! :-( In article , "Futbolmetrix" wrote: > OK, so that settles it: the 17-year old described in the post was > Lajos Tichy. But the question still looms unanswered: who is > Gaborzinho? The tension is building! Read on. > In article , "Futbolmetrix" wrote: > > Now, you'd think that Gaborzinho's first name is Gabor, > not Florian or Lajos. But that doesn't really mean anything, does it? Very good, Sherlock! But again, it may or may not be so. Clever people give clues, but the cleverest don't. Read on. > > Now, from Gaborzinho's various posts over the years, we > know he was closely associated with the mythical Hungarian > team of the early '50s. Unless he's making it all up, and > I have no reason to believe this is the case, he was part of > the 1954 WC expedition. Was he a player? An assistant manager? > The ball boy? He could very well have been one of the players: > in those times I guess that national teams would not send > very large expeditions to the WC: the players, the manager, > a few accompanying guys from the FA, not much more. He must > have been relatively young in 1954, so it's unlikely he was > a high ranking officer in the Hungarian FA. A little bit of all the above, except for the "high ranking" part. Actually I was associated with the club Kispest, later renamed Honved. I had an early injury that ended my career as a player. (Today it would result in a 6-month rest and rehab.) I didn't think I wanted to be a coach or manager, assistant manager or ballboy. So I became a scout. It was a semi-official job then, I was reimbursed expenses, that was about all. But it did protect me and my family from some of the political purges of that time. I had a day job as a translator for Hungary's official news agency. The head of that agency was none other than the head of the Hungarian Football Association, so he was very forgiving when it came to punching the clock. I spent lot of my time watching lower division matches, most often accompanied by some of the Honved players. Puskas was almost always there, as he said it: "What's a football player to do in his spare time?" (More accurately: "What's a f#$&ng football player f#$&ng to do in his f#$&ng spare time?") The players liked me, the club officials, who were army people, not as much. The feeling was mutual. As a reward for my accomplishments (I'd like to think) I was included in the delegation to 1954 WC, which was actually quite large by all standards. Besides the sizable contingent (appr. 25!) of AVH (the Hungarian KGB) officers, it even included several players who were not part of the roster and many coaches as well. Officially I was an interpreter, but spent most of my time hanging around the team. I was asked to observe the practices of Uruguay and Brasil and I could not have been more delighted. It was largely due to my clever observations that Hungary won against both - NOT! Initially I was also asked to attend the Uruguay - England match, but they could not provide an AVH officer to accompany me (what the hell were they busy with?) so someone else went instead, the son of one the FA officials, apparently he was more trustworthy. > > But then, from other posts, we know that he was in Brazil > in the early '60s. He has some great posts about Garrincha > and other Brazilians of that time. > I also understand that at some point he > left Hungary as a dissident. So I think that rules out > Albert, who kept on playing for Hungary until 1974. > I left during the Revolution of 1956. I travelled with the touring Honved team and I was with them until after returning from the South American tour. Then most players went home, some did not. I went to Italy, where I had some friends. When Puskas joined Real Madrid I visited him. From that visit I was offered a job scouting players. Much travel followed, mostly 3rd class, fleabag hotels, cheap restaurants, but it was fun. When a job opened up in South America, more specifically in Rio, I applied for it and got it. My host club there was Botafogo, and what a marvellous team that was. In 1967 I moved to the US to join the old NASL. I was by then somewhat into coaching as well, but mainly at the youth level. And it was a good thing, the league folded 2 years later, but by then I had a full-time coaching job. I moved around a bit, and was in Wash DC, when Jimmy Carter returned St. Stephen's 1000-year-old crown to Hungary. The reason this was significant, because as one of the conditions attached to this deal was the recognition of foreign citizenships by the Hungarian government. This made it possible for many people who left in '56 to return for visits. I had not seen my parents since '56, so I was one who took advantage of this new situation and booked a trip for the Christmas holidays. Unfortunately my mother passed away quite suddenly at the end of Nov., but my father and sister were still there and we spent a not quite joyous Christmas together. It was also the first time they met my Brasilian wife. I hooked up with some of my old friends, and they asked that I return in the summer for participating in a youth soccer camp at my old club. I agreed and returned in Jun. 77. The camp was a huge success with about 1500 kids participating from ages 8-16. One of the participants was a skinny, blond 14-year-old kid by the name of Lajos Detari. He was a player in Honved's youth system, and his abilities were already recognized. I talked to the u16 coach, and suggested that they move Detari up to the u16 age group, so he will be challenged more. Club officials were a little apprehensive, but finally agreed. I also accepted their invitation to stay on with that team until the end of the fall season. The coach was delighted, since I was no threat to his job, knowing that I will eventually leave, but in the meantime he had the chance to work with me. It turned out great, and Lajos Detari really developed tremendously during those few months. (When Hagi had his farewell match last April in Bucharest, Detari asked me to travel with him there. He had his ups and downs during his playing career, and we talked a lot about life in general. He was named the head-coach for Honved just 2 days ago. I don't think he is ready, but called to wish him luck.) I also found out, that football in Hungary was not for me. The system was corrupt, disorganized, broke and not forward-looking compared to what I was used to. So I returned to the US and took a job in California. It was OK, but after a while I got tired of dealing with the parents and working within a system where money seemed to buy playing priviledges. I am not being critical, just that I lost my drive to work within guidelines which I disagreed with. In 1988 we moved to Florida. Here I met some old friends, and returned to youth coaching again. Then in 1995 I retired for good. I do still train teams, youth and local SunCoast League (amateur), and just a few days ago I worked as a scout for a college during the Sun Bowl youth tournament. So the circle has now been closed. I equally divide my time among Florida, Brasil and Europe. In Europe I stay mainly in Hungary, but Spain, Italy, Germany and Romania (Transylvania) as well. I escorted a local u12 youth team last year to Hungary. The Hungarian team reciprocated the visit, they had a great time in the Florida winter. So I may do this more often, time and my health permitting. And yes, I am still in touch with Honved, or whatever little is left of the club. > Instead, Tichy, who ended his international career in 1964...hmmm The president of the Hungarian FA blacklisted him from the national team. He was put on the WC 66 roster by overwhelming popular demand. But was not allowed to play. Actually, his passport was revoked for some time after the EC '64 finals in Spain. (The reasons for this was that he allegedly entered into negotiations with foreign clubs, which was tantamount to treason in those days. What really happened was, that the president of Juventus, Sr. Agnelli, invited him for dinner. Agnelli gave him a blank check in 1962 and told him to name his price. Tichy, who was offered 200 kg of gold by Real Madrid in 1956, turned it down. Players back then were not allowed to play for Western clubs, or else risk severe punishment back home. These were often applied against remaining family members. This time Agnelli was just trying to be civil, he knew Tichy's situation well.) He continued playing for Honved until '71 and participated in many UEFA and CWC matches with the club. > > Gaborzinho-Lajos Tichy, we have unmasked you! > Ah, but you are wrong!!!! I am really Rue Paul! In article , "Victoria Barrett" wrote: > > Okay, since Gaborzinho (supposedly a fellow Floridian -- which I believe > entirely, as we have a huge -- 20,000? -- but secretive Hungarian community > in South Florida) interests me immensely, I'll throw my sleuthing pork-pie > hat into the ring. > > I think Gaborzinho is Dori Kurschner...but I won't tell you how I got to > that conclusion. > > Just look it up. :) > > Victoria "No sh*t Sherlock" Barrett Secretive Hungarian community in South Florida? I only know a handful of Hungarians in and around Sarasota. But those are all old farts. :-) Actually, two of my ex-teammates happen to live there. One became national team goalkeeper for both Hungary and later the US. He also was the head coach of the US national team for awhile. The other guy owns a motel there and for years was the coach of the local amateur team. Dori Kurschner, heh? I am not that dead yet!