All articles are by Garry Archer unless otherwise noted. The FA Cup Trivia
articles were originally sent to rec.sport.misc during January - May 1989.
FA Cup Trivia #1: Cup Final replays
FA Cup Trivia #2: Non-league victories
Giant killers of the FA Cup (by James C. Armstrong)
FA Cup Trivia #3: Multiple replays and the two-legged 1945-6 FA Cup
FA Cup Trivia #4: The origins of the FA Cup [LONG]
FA Cup Trivia #5: The first FA Cup competition [LONG]
In-depth reply [LONG] (by James Ross)
==================================================
Subject: FA Cup 3rd Round REPLAYS (plus TRIVIA #1)
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
Date: Fri Jan 13, 1989
FA Cup TRIVIA #1
How many times has the FA Cup Final gone to a replay?
How many times has the FA Cup Final been replayed in THREE consecutive years?
The FA Cup Final (played at Wembley Stadium since 1923) is not
exempt from the replay rule. If the Final is tied after extra
time, it will be replayed another day as it was in 1981, 1982,
1983 [THREE consecutive years!] at Wembley, in 1970 the replay
was at Old Trafford, Manchester. Other years the Final was
replayed; 1875, 1876, 1886, 1901, 1902, 1910, 1911, 1912 [*again*,
three consecutive years]... no more replays until 1970.
Answers; 1) 12, 2) Twice!
=========================
Subject: FA CUP Trivia #2
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
Date: Mon Jan 16 1989
Since the discussion already came up, I'd like to continue the occassional
dosage of English FA Cup trivia by providing some information I was able
to dig up regarding First Division giant-killing by non-league clubs.
1) What non-league clubs have scored victories over English First Division
teams in the history of the FA Cup?
2) Name the famous non-league AMATEUR team that belongs to this select group.
Well, the following is what I could find. I'll add this season's (to date)
to the list (home teams first, (NL) indicates the non-league club):
1)
Season Round Game
1919-20 1 Cardiff City (NL) 2, Oldham Athletic 0
1919-20 1 Sheffield Wednesday 0, Darlington (NL) 2
(after a 0-0 draw at Darlington)
1923-24 1 Corinthians (NL) 1, Blackburn Rovers 0
1947-48 3 Colchester United (NL) 1, Huddersfield Town 0
1948-49 4 Yeovil Town (NL) 2, Sunderland 1
1971-72 3 Hereford United (NL) 2, Newcastle United 1
(after a 2-2 draw at Newcastle)
1974-75 3 Burnley 0, Wimbledon (NL) 1
1985-86 3 Birmingham City 1, Altrincham (NL) 2
1988-89 3 Sutton United (NL) 2, Coventry City 1
(Note, the Third Division was not added to the League until 1920)
2)
Corinthians, were only an amateur team, a team of gentlemen, never played
in any formal league. Instead, they preferred to play in friendly games
all over the world in order to promote the sport of "football" and frequently
defeating professional teams with high standing. However, Corinthians did
play in England's FA Cup competitions until the eventual demise of this famous
club. There is no time here for a full history of this highly interesting
team, unfortunately.
==================================================
From: James C. Armstrong, Jr (nyssa@terminus.UUCP)
Subject: Giant killers of the FA Cup
Date: Mon Jan 16 06:49:38 1989
Sutton Utd's victory over a first division opponent is only the fourth
time since WWII that a non-league team has beaten a first division
opponent. The other three were:
1949: Jan 29: Yeovil 2 Sunderland 1 (4th round)
1971: Feb 5: Hereford 2 Newcastle 1 (3rd round replay, aet)
1975: Jan 4: Burnley 0 Wimbledon 1 (3rd round)
Each winner lost in the subsequent round, Yeovil losing 8-0 at
Manchester United, Hereford losing 3-1 at West Ham in a replay,
and Wimbledon losing 1-0 to Leeds United in a replay.
Fifth round appearances by non-League sides are equally rare:
1948: Feb 7: Blackpool 5 Colchester 0
1949: Feb 12: Manchester United 8 Yeovil 0
1978: Feb 18: Wrexham 1 Blyth Spartans 1
1978: Feb 27: Blyth Spartans 1 Wrexham 2
Although not a victory over a first division club, Worcester City
almost did as well on 15 January, 1959, when they beat Liverpool,
then leading the second division, 2-1.
==========================
Subject: FA Cup Trivia #3
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
Date: Wed Jan 18, 1989
Himawan Gunadhi (gunadhi@lbl-csam.arpa) writes:
> Garry Archer writes:
> >Himawan Gunadhi writes:
> >> 1. what year, round and 2 teams hold the record for
> >> the most replayed tie in FA cup history?
> >
> >Good question. Without looking it up, I can only guess. All I remember
> >is Burnley and Chelsea going at it for about 5 or 6 games in the mid-1950's.
> >I'm not sure if this is the right answer though.
> >
> I'm embarassed to say I can't remember too well myself, hee hee!
> I thought it was Arsenal in 1979, the year they won the cup
> in a 3-2 win over Manchester United (the most dramatic
> last 3 minutes ever probably:
I remember watching that great game!
> But I digress, because I cannot recall which
> round (either 4th or 5th), the opponent, and how many games
> it took Arsenal to win (I think 5, could be 6), and if this was the
> record! I remember people saying that it was Arsenal's
> destiny, any team that survives that many matches has their
> name on the Cup.
I did try to look up the facts and find an answer:
In 1954-55, Doncaster Rovers beat Aston Villa 3-1 in the 4th Replay
of the Fourth Round. In 1955-56, Chelsea won 2-0 at Burnley in the 4th Replay
of the Fourth Round. However, I can't find all the third round games over the
years, including 1978-79 that you pertain to. In that season, all I know is
that Arsenal went to one replay in the sixth round (quarter-finals) when they
beat Southampton 2-0 after a 1-1 draw. (In other words, I'm still not
satisfied we have the right answer!)
> >> 3. name the major soccer tournaments (eg international,
> >> national and continental) in the world that are
> >> carried out in pure knockout format (i.e.
> >> no round-robin, no seeding,
> >> no home-away leg ties, no tiebreakers like aggregate
> >> scores, penalty kicks, coin toss, or who scores
> >> first wins in extra time etc).
> >
> >I can only think of the FA Cup! There must be more, surely?
>
> There is no other competition. So you are right.
> This I'm sure of, have read it before etc.
> Most knockout competitions use some form of 2-leg
> ties, else are one-match ties with penalty shootouts after
> ET, others (like EC, UEFA, CWC, Copa Libertadores) use
> seeding also for early games to ensure that the cash-generating
> teams won't knock each other out, etc.
Which leads me to Trivia #3. (I only read about this one myself yesterday!)
Q)
In what year did the Football Association adopt the 2-leg rule for its FA Cup?
A)
The FA Cup competition had been completed under unique rules in 1945-46,
requiring games to be contested on a home-and-away basis. This is due
in the most part to the return of players to competition after World
War Two, and the attempt to establish enough games for clubs being able
to field full teams. One resulting oddity of this unique season is that
Charlton Athletic became the first side to reach the Final after undisputably
**LOSING** an earlier game. Fulham beat them 2-1 in one of the third
round matches but Charlton won on aggregate by winning the other match 3-1.
I'm VERY pleased to say, that MY team, Derby County, beat Charlton 4-1
after extra time in the final at Wembley (but of course, I knew THAT already!)
======================================================
Subject: Re: FA Cup 3rd Round REPLAYS (plus TRIVIA #1)
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
Date: Fri Jan 27 09:01:52 1989
major@shuksan.UUCP (Mike Schmitt) writes:
> > > 2. can this feat be repeated today?
> > As far as I know, it can (i.e., the tie will be not resolved by penalty kicks
> > or tossing of coins!)
> I don't think it could be repeated. FIFA changed the rules so that if
> a match ends in a tie - the game will be resolved by the taking of
> penalty kicks. Some levels of play allow two overtimes halves (but
> not necessarily sudden death). Preliminary matches where points are
> awarded for wins/ties/goals, standings can be determined by head-to-head
> competition, difference between goals-for and goals-against etc. But,
> the final match, according to FIFA, "must be played to completion".
> which FIFA says is the "taking of penalty kicks."
Aha! But we're talking F.A. rules here (Football Association - England).
F.I.F.A. may be able to rule on international games at the club and national
level, and indeed, games like European Cup ties HAVE to be resolved within
the 2-leg "home-and-away" tie (i.e., If the teams are tied after 2-legs,
even considering away goals counting double in the event of a tie, then
two 15-minute halves of extra-time are played. If still tied, penalty kicks
will resolve it... 5 for each team, then if still tied, sudden death). So
yes, you are right in that F.I.F.A. says the final match must be played to
completion.
However, the F.A. (the world's *OLDEST* soccer governing body) have their
own rules on how to resolve F.A. Cup matches (the world's *OLDEST* organised
soccer tournament). F.I.F.A. and the F.A. have been knocking heads together
for decades, but I don't think F.I.F.A. have any jurisdiction in this case.
The F.A. will continue to use replays.
But, I've read here in this newsgroup recently, that the F.A. have apparently
changed the rule in the case of the actual F.A. Cup Final. The Final will
go to penalty kicks after a match is unresolved after extra time. If this
is true, then it certainly isn't because of any F.I.F.A. ruling, but a
reaction to the three consecutive years earlier in the 1980's (1981-83) when
the Final was resolved after a replay.
================================
Subject: FA Cup Trivia #4 (LONG)
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
Date: Tue Feb 7 12:58:00 1989
The following trivia was compiled by me from several sources. It was
intended to be a question on when the FA Cup first came into being. But
to get to that one must understand the history of the Football Association
which is also to understand the history of modern soccer. So, I got a
little carried away. Hopefully, you'll find this all news, if not,
hopefully it will refresh your memory on how it all began (and essentially
the reason why we're all here reading soccer articles in rec.sport.misc!!!!!).
This is **HIGHLY** condensed, by the way. Please enjoy!
Q) When was the modern game of soccer invented?
A) In 1848 at Cambridge University, England, 14 men representing the public
schools of Eton, Harrow, Winchester, Rugby and others produced the famous
"Cambridge Rules" after about seven hours. The rules were revised and
tightened up at least twice in the 1850's. In November 1862, the rules were
revised prior to a match between Cambridge Old Etonians and Cambridge Old
Harrovians:
- 11-a-side
- an umpire from each side, plus a neutral referee
- goals 12 feet across, upto 20 feet high
- an hour and a quarter's play
- three man offside rule
These new rules formed a vital part of the revised Cambridge Rules and,
in the following months, those of the newly formed Football Association.
In October 1863, the Cambridge Rules were formally issued.
Q) What is the oldest, organised football club in the world?
A) In 1854-55, the Sheffield Football Club was formed in Sheffield, Yorkshire,
England. The club was made up of cricketers from the Sheffield Cricket Club
at Bramall Lane (home of present day Sheffield United Football Club) and
friends from Collegiate School in Sheffield.
Q) What is the oldest football association in the world?
A) On 26th October, 1863, at the Freemasons' Tavern, Great Queen Street
(near Lincoln Inn Fields), Holborn, London, there was a meeting of
members of the chief clubs and schools playing football. The "Football
Association" was formed for the purpose of framing a set of official laws
under which **ALL** clubs could play the game (hear that FIFA????).
Apart from a number of independent persons interested in the scheme, the
following clubs were represented at the meeting:
Barnes
Blackheath
Charterhouse
Perceval House
Kensington School
War Office
Crystal Palace (no relation to the modern club of the same name)
Blackheath Proprietary School
The Crusaders
Forest
"No Names" Kilburn
Conspicuous by their absence were the main provincial centres of the game -
Sheffield, Nottingham and Glasgow - nor, more surprisingly, were Cambridge
present. There was a considerable difference of opinion among the original
members as to The Laws Of The Game. These were not passed until after the
fifth meeting on 8th December, 1863.
The formation of the Football Association was often bitter and ill-tempered.
The Rugby code and the "dribbling" code split the members. The problem
was not running with the ball, but "hacking". Rugby men felt it was
manly and courageous to tackle an opponent by kicking him on the shin; the
dribbling men didn't and voted it out. The Rugby men called the dribbling
men cowards and walked out on the F.A. forever.
In 1863, every player was still allowed to handle the ball, and when he
caught it he could "make a mark" and so win a free kick. Australian Rules
Football (a derivative of Rugby and Soccer) use this rule and terminology
to this day. In the first F.A. laws, a "touch-down" rule allowed a free
kick at goal after the ball had been kicked over the opposing goal line
and touched down (a Rugby "try", in fact). And here my friends is the
origin of the "extra point" kick after touch-downs in American Football
(another game derived from Soccer).
Q) Who is credited with coining the word "soccer"?
A) Near the end of 1863, Charles Wreford-Brown, who later became a notable
official of the F.A., was asked by some friends at Oxford whether he cared
to join them for a game of "rugger" (rugby). He is said to have refused,
preferring instead to go for a game of "soccer" - a play on the word
"association". The name caught on.
Q) Who is responsible for the birth of the F.A. Cup, and when?
A) In 1870, Charles Alcock, Secretary of the F.A., had already established
unofficial internationals between England and Scots resident in London and
a regular London-Sheffield encounter. But his most reknown contribution
came on 20th July, 1871, when in the offices of "The Sportsman", a London
newspaper, seven men made soccer history. Growing competitiveness
encouraged the 29 year-old Alcock to propose a challenge cup "for which
all clubs belonging to the F.A. should be invited to compete". The idea
was based on the interhouse knock-out competition at Alcock's old school,
Harrow - the winners being referred to as the "Cock House". Among the
other six present were Matthew Betts who scored the first ever Cup Final
goal (playing under the assumed name of A.H.Chequer - meaning that he was
a member of the Old Harrovian side Harrow Chequers), and Captain Francis
marandin, later president of the F.A. and who appeared in two Finals and
refereed another eight.
The F.A. ordered a cup from Martin, Hall and Company; it cost a mere
20 English pounds and stood just 18 inches high. It was originally
known as the F.A. Challenge Trophy.
Coming soon: The first F.A. Cup!
(Here we are trying to fill up the net with soccer articles!)
===================================
Subject: Re: FA Cup Trivia #4 (LONG)
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
Date: Fri Feb 10 09:39:46 1989
ewan@june.cs.washington.edu (Ewan Tempero) writes:
>> Q) Who is credited with coining the word "soccer"?
>
> The story I heard (and so is possibly less accurate than Garry's) is that,
> at the time when football was growing, it was fashionable to add the syllable
> "er" at the end of words (e.g., "rugger") (don't ask me why, I guess that's
> just Oxford for you :-). Also at the time, because "association football" was
> a bit of a mouthful, people were shortening the name of the game to "assoc"
> and hence "asoccer" (presumably Wreford-Brown was the first to make the
> connection but this suggests why it caught on so widely).
>
This may be a perfectly good explanation, Ewan. It has always bothered me
how the word "soccer" came out of "association". It seems reasonably feasible
as you have pointed out that:
Rugby Football ---> rugby ---> rugger
Association Football ---> assoc ---> assoccer
"Soccer" is easier to say than "assoccer". All the books I've ever read
cannot pinpoint the exact origin, but the version I posted is as close as
anything, and even that is just a "credit" (re- the original question)
and not an indisputable fact.
> Thanks for the info Garry!
> --ewan
Just trying to share the wealth of information that I sometimes read.
(Something I find irresistable concerning soccer... er, Association Football!)
=============================
Subject: FA Cup Trivia #5.
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
Date: Fri Mar 3, 1989
I promised this some time ago, Soccer fans. I'm sorry, but work has been
hectic lately, and I just didn't have the time. Well, I still don't,
but I'm going to submit it for your entertainment anyway!
FA Cup Trivia #5: The First FA Cup Competition. The first organised
competition of its kind in any sport! Remember, from FA Cup Trivia #4,
that the FA Cup was organised in July 1871, and was originally known as
the Football Association Challenge Trophy. Here then, is the first
season. Note that there are a few perculiar results and decisions on how
games were resolved. Probably typical of any large scale operation of
this kind in its infancy. This is what makes the first FA Cup so special:
FA Challenge Trophy 1871 - 1872 (Home games listed first.)
FIRST ROUND
Clapham Rovers 3, Upton Park 0
Crystal Palace 0, Hitchin 0 (SEE NOTE 1)
Maidenhead 2, Great Marlow 0
Barnes 2, Civil Service 0
Wanderers vs Harrow Chequers (scratched) (SEE NOTE 2)
Royal Engineers vs Reigate Priory (scratched) (SEE NOTE 3)
Queen's Park BYE
Donington School BYE
Hampstead Heathens BYE
NOTE 1: The Progress of Crystal Palace and Hitchin into the second round
was covered by RULE 8 of the competition whereby in the case of a
draw both clubs could compete in the next round.
NOTE 2: Wanderers win by Walk Over.
NOTE 3: Royal Engineers win by Walk Over.
SECOND ROUND
Wanderers 3, Clapham Rovers 1
Crystal Palace 3, Maidenhead 0
Royal Engineers 3, Hitchin 1
Hampstead Heathens 2, Barnes 0
Queen's Park vs Donington School (scratched) (SEE NOTE 4)
NOTE 4: Queen's Park win by Walk Over. Donington School scratched without
ever playing a game. They've NEVER entered into the competition
ever since, thus establishing some kind of record! (How about
*that* trivia fans!)
THIRD ROUND
Wanderers vs Crystal Palace (SEE NOTE 5)
Royal Engineers 2, Hampstead Heathens 0
Queen's Park BYE (SEE NOTE 6)
NOTE 5: The game was drawn (tied), but no score is available! What happened
to it? Lost in the mists of time? If you can show evidence of what
the score was in this game, I would be *VERY* interested to know.
Note that both teams were able to advance because of RULE 8
(see NOTE 1).
NOTE 6: Queen's Park were granted a bye from the third round into the
semi-final because of the travelling. Remember, Queen's Park
are from Scotland and nearly all the other teams are from what
are known as the "Home Counties", i.e. suburbian towns of London.
In those days, that was quite a haul and I'm sure very expensive
to transport a soccer team (in that era probably 12 players, the
manager, a couple of assistants).
SEMI-FINALS
Royal Engineers 3, Crystal Palace 0
Queen's Park 0, Wanderers 0 (SEE NOTE 7)
REPLAY
Wanderers vs Queen's Park (scratched) (SEE NOTE 7)
NOTE 7: Well, you can guess what happened here. Under RULE 8, Queen's
Park would have advanced to the Final, but so would have
Royal Engineers and Wanderers! There must have been a clause
that avoided this situation (how funny it should have occured
in the very first competition!). So, Queen's Park, who couldn't
afford the trip to London for the replay, were scratched and
Wanderer's won by a Walk Over.
FINAL at Kennington Oval, London
Wanderers 1, Royal Engineers 0 (SEE NOTE 8)
NOTE 8: Amazingly, Wanderers won only ONE game before defeating the Royal
Engineers at Kennington Oval in the Final. Wanderers goal, the
first ever in an FA Cup Final, was scored by M.P. Betts who played
under the name of A.H. Chequer indicating that he had come from
Harrow Chequers, who had scratched to Wanderers in the first round!
Some 2,000 people turned out for the Final to see men dressed in
trousers and caps (Royal Engineers wore 'dark blue serge
knickerbockers'), who changed ends every time a goal was scored
and who won throw-ins by touching the ball down in Rugby fashion
if it went out of play. The Kennington Oval pitch would have hardly
been recognisable to present-day supporters --- there was no centre
circle, no half-way line, no penalty area and a tape instead of a
cross-bar.
Wanderers had only won TWO games in their campaign. As Cup holders, in
the 1872 - 1873 season they were given byes all the way to the Final. This
was the only occassion when the Cup holders were excused from taking part
until the Final. Another privilege as Cup holders was choice of ground!
So, in 1873, Wanderers elected to play at Lillie Bridge (in London, I think)
where they defeated Oxford University 2-0. Wanderers had won the first two
FA Cups after winning only *THREE* games! Queen's Park had similar travelling
expense difficulties in 1872-73 and received byes until the Semi-Finals where
they were scratched *AGAIN*, similar to 1871-72!!! In fact, because Wanderers
received a bye in the Semi-Finals the FA Cup Finalists were actually decided
without playing a Semi-Final game!!!!
In my next FA Cup Trivia (#6), I'll post a record of all teams entered for
the first two FA Cup competitions. You'll find it very interesting.
I'm only going to do this for the first two since I mentioned them here.
============================================
From: jmr@zfe1.demon.co.uk ("James M. Ross")
Subject: Re: FA CUP History [Reply to FA Cup Trivia # 5]
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94
Thanks for digging this out Gary, a very enjoyable post. I hope that
you will also give another airing to your other articles. I have a
few additions and corrections for this one.
Firstly a few words about my sources, in case anyone wonders where
on earth you can find results from games played almost 125 years ago.
I have no less than 6 different publications detailing FA Cup results
from the start but there are discrepancies between them. Source (1) is a
very battered copy of the Hamyln A-Z of British Football Records by Phil
Soar published back in 1984. The details given in this match Gary's
exactly. Source (2) is a publication by the Association of Football
Association (AFS), "The Early Years" detailing the history of (English)
soccer pre-1888, published in 1983. Not only does this give dates, half
times, full teams and scorers for the matches, it even reproduces match
reports for three of the first round matches! Source (3) is another AFS
publication (from 1985) which gives FA Cup results/scores/line-ups from
the start but doesn't offer any new info additional to (2). Source (4)
is "Breedon's Book of Football League Records" by Gordon Smailes,
published 1991. It lists all Football League results ever and also all
FA Cup proper and League Cup results. It's FA Cup results for 1871-72
are a curious mix of those given in (1) and (2). Source (5) is the
mammoth "Guiness Record of the FA Cup" by Mike Collett (an AFS member),
published in 1993. The bulk of the book is a club by club breakdown of
results in the FA Cup proper since the Cup was inaugerated. He also
gives some (very) brief information about each club. In general this
backs up (2) and (3) but there are still some discrepancies. Finally
source (6) is Tony Brown's (another AFS member!) "Ultimate FA Cup
Statistics Book" published this summer which lists virtually *every*
one of 50000+ FA Cup qualifying and proper results ever. In addition
there is a brief history of the competition, lists of record scores and
aggregates, giant killers lists and all time club records. A truly
comprehensive record. Tony also describes in detail how he set about
compiling his tome, which includes scrutinising the FA's original minutes
books and for this reason, and the fact that it is the most recent
publication, I think the results he gives must be taken to be the
most authentic.
> FA Cup Trivia #5:{...] was originally known as the Football Association
> Challenge Trophy.
It has always been (and still is) the Football Association Challenge
*Cup*. The FA Challenge Trophy is an altogether different and more modern
beastie. The significance of "Challenge" is that the holder were exempt
until from the next competition until the Final were they would meet
the winner of the so-called "trial" matches. They also had choice of
ground(!)
> FA Challenge Trophy 1871 - 1872 (Home games listed first.)
Actually there was no concept of home advantage in rules and it's unclear
how clubs agreed where to play games. The only stipulation was that the
last two rounds would be played in London at a ground of the FA's
choosing. In 1874 this was altered such that the teams tossed a coin
for choice of grounds, with the choice alternating for replays. It wasn't
until 1882 that choice of ground was automatically given to the team
first out the hat.
> FIRST ROUND
Taking place on Nov 11 1871.
> Clapham Rovers 3, Upton Park 0
The match report given in (2) clearly states that this game took place
at Upton. As far as can be ascertained, Jarvis Kenrick of Clapham scored
the first ever FA Cup goal after just 15 minutes.
> Crystal Palace 0, Hitchin 0 (SEE NOTE 1)
Again, the match report states that the Palace club travelled to Hitchin.
Note that this is a *different* club from the present Crystal Palace.
> Maidenhead 2, Great Marlow 0
> Barnes 2, Civil Service 0
Civil Service turned up with only 8 men (short-handed as usual the
report claims!). Despite this handicap they held out until well into
the second half when apparently confusion between two "C.S." defenders
let Barnes in for the opening goal. The rules were more fluid in those
days and the enforcement of the no handling rule for Cup ties seemed to
have caused some confusion, not least because the Barnes players claimed
a fine distinction between "fisting" the ball and merely touching it
which was somewhat lost on the "C.S." who felt hard done by! Another
"new" rule was the stipulation that matches should be 11-a-side.
> Wanderers vs Harrow Chequers (scratched) (SEE NOTE 2)
> Royal Engineers vs Reigate Priory (scratched) (SEE NOTE 3)
> Queen's Park BYE
> Donington School BYE
Queen's Park (from Glasgow) and Donington School (from Spalding,
Lincolnshire) were actually drawn together, but since they were unable
to agree a date for the game due to the short notice given by the FA,
both were allowed into the next round. The ties were published in
such newspapers as the FA saw fit and the clubs had to play within a
month of them appearing. Too bad if they subscribed to the wrong paper!
These two were the only clubs from outside London and the home counties.
The early rules gave the organising committee the power to arrange the
draw as they liked, either by drawing lots or otherwise. In the case of
"provincial" clubs they reserved the right to exempt them from early
rounds altogether or to pair clubs from the same district (Scotland
and Lincolnshire???) together.
> NOTE 1: [...] RULE 8 of the competition whereby in the case of a
> draw both clubs could compete in the next round.
More exactly, rule 8 stated that in the case of a draw the clubs should
progress to the next round, or play each other again at the discretion
of the committee. This rule seems to have been abandoned after two
seasons.
In addition to the 15 clubs which actually appeared in the draw,
Lausanne and Windsor Home Park had agreed to take part but withdrew
before the draw. Note that FA membership was almost 50 at that time,
but most clubs preferred to play for "the game's sake" rather than
for "a little tin idol". The original Cup (the current one is the fourth)
was made from silver and cost ST20. It stood 18 inches tall and had a
figurine of a football on the lid.
> SECOND ROUND
>
> Wanderers 3, Clapham Rovers 1
(1), (5) and (6) agree on this result, (2) and (3) gives 1-0 to
Wanderers *at* Clapham, whilst (4) goes for 3-1 to Wanderers at Clapham.
Any other offers?
> Royal Engineers 3, Hitchin 1
All sources bar (1) agree on 5-0 to the Engineers *at* Hitchin. Only
60 minutes were played but the result stood. This may have been something
to do with Hitchin having only 8 players.
> Hampstead Heathens 2, Barnes 0
All sources other than (1) give Hampstead 1 Barnes 0 after a 1-1
draw at Barnes. Hampstead played a man short in both games. Note the use
of the committee's discretion under Rule 8. It seems that the committee
would order a replay if there was enough time before the next round,
otherwise they'd let both clubs through, so it was obviously in the
clubs interest to delay playing the tie until as late as possible!
> NOTE 4: [...]
An unbeatable record! Harrow Chequers also had an interesting FA Cup
career. They entered three times (1871, 1874 and 1875) and scratched
each time without every playing a game.
> THIRD ROUND
> Royal Engineers 2, Hampstead Heathens 0
Only (1) and (5) list the score, the others give 3-0 to the Engineers.
The Engineers had only 10 players for this game.
> Wanderers vs Crystal Palace (SEE NOTE 5)
> NOTE 5: The game was drawn (tied), but no score is available! What happened
> to it? Lost in the mists of time? [...]
You'll be disappointed Gary. It was a no score draw.
> SEMI-FINALS
All at the Kennington Oval
> Royal Engineers 3, Crystal Palace 0
This was in fact a replay, the first game ended 0-0.
> Queen's Park 0, Wanderers 0 (SEE NOTE 7)
> NOTE 7: [...]Under RULE 8, Queen's Park would have advanced to the Final, but
> so would have Royal Engineers and Wanderers! There must have been a
> clause that avoided this situation.
There were two possibilities. Firstly, there was no set number of rounds.
Although this round is regarded as the semi-finals, rule 6 stated that
clubs would be drawn in pairs until only two clubs were left and the
winners of that match would win the cup. So it could have gone on and on
and on ... or else, under rule 8 the comittee could have insisted on a
replay which seems to what they did.
Queen's Park had only been able to travel down for the match thanks to
a public collection in Glasgow. They were left with just ST4 in the bank
and so had to retire from the competition.
> FINAL at Kennington Oval, London
On March 16 1872
> Wanderers 1, Royal Engineers 0 (SEE NOTE 8)
>
> NOTE 8: [...] The Kennington Oval pitch would have hardly been recognisable
> to present-day supporters --- there was no centre circle, no half-way
> line, no penalty area and a tape instead of a cross-bar.
It was worse than that. There weren't even any side-lines! Only flags
at each corner and the goal posts. The maximum dimensions allowed then
were 200 yards by 100, considerable more than the current 130 x 100.
The Wanderers developed from the Forest Club (no association with
Nottingham Forest), formed in 1859 and founder members of the FA. They appeared
in 5 fnals and won them all. The last three were consecutive (1876, 1877 and
1878, the last refereeed by Mr S.R.Bastard BTW) and thus according to the rules
they won the Cup outright. But they returned it to the Association on condition
that no other club could win it outright. They disbanded at the end of the
1881-82 season. The Royal Engineers were from Chatham, Kent next to Gillingham.
They chalked up 4 final appearances but won only one, in 1875. By 1908
they were known as Depot Battalion Royal Engineers and under this title
they won the FA Amateur Cup. Only two other clubs have won both the Challenge
and Amateur Cups, Old Carthusians who won the Challenge Cup in 1881 and
the first ever Amateur Cup in 1894 and more recently Wimbledon, Amateur
Cup winners in 1963 and Challenge Cup winners in 1988.
Admission to the first final was one shilling (5p) and the crowd were mainly
middle-classed. The workers didn't catch on for some years yet!
The Engineers were odds-on favourites. They hadn't been beaten for two
years, but the Wanderers were considered to have more skillful individuals.
The Engineers side consisted entirely of officers, 2 captains and 9
lieutenants and sported red and blue outfits (blue and red hooped jerseys -
infromation thanks to George Chilvers). After only 10 minutes the Engineer's
Lt. Edmund Cresswell fell awkwardly and broke his collar-bone. He limped
out to the wing leaving the Engineers a man short effectively. Five
minutes later Robert Walpole Sealy-Vidal fed the ball out to Morton
Peto Betts who scored that historic first ever FA Cup Final goal.
Charles Alcock had the ball in the goal (no nets then!) again for the
Wanderers later on but it was disallowed for hand-ball.
> Wanderers had only won TWO games in their campaign. As Cup holders, in
> the 1872 - 1873 season they were given byes all the way to the Final.
Strictly speaking they were exempt, as described above.
> This was the only occassion when the Cup holders were excused from taking
> part until the Final. Another privilege as Cup holders was choice of ground!
> So, in 1873, Wanderers elected to play at Lillie Bridge (in London, I think)
Correct. The venue was the Amateur Athletic Ground at Lillie Bridge in
West Brompton, not far from Earls Court. The final was scheduled to
kick off at 11 o'clock, in order to allow ample time for those anxious
to see the Boat Race to reach Putney, Hammersmith or wherever according
to the Sporting Life.